Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

126

Is the Bible Really Scientifically Accurate?

by FreeAtLast1914 in

jw
friends

the society (and others) love to quote job 26:7 where it says that "[god] suspends the earth over nothing" and isaiah 40:22, where it speaks of "the circle of the earth".

they use these scriptures to boast about the incredible scientific accuracy of the bible, proving god had a direct hand in everything written in it.. the trouble is that elsewhere in the scriptures, opposing views are put forth explaining then-unexplainable physics and geographical notions.

one is job 26:11: "the pillars of heaven tremble.

Olin Moyles Ghost

@Perry--sorry for the delay in responding. I typically don't have the opportunity to visit this board daily. Thanks for providing some more details about your beliefs. I don't run across too many people who truly believe that humans and dinosaurs coexisted--fascinating!

While this discovery (which may be dinosaur soft tissue) is exciting, it seems a bit extreme to use it as a basis discard all of the evidence for dinosaurs having lived tens of millions of years ago. Rather, it makes more sense to consider the evidence as a whole and examine how this new discovery fits into that body of evidence.

Of course, there is a cottage industry of fundamentalist organizations that is focused on muddying the scientific waters as much as possible. These outfits remind me of the studies funded by the cigarette industry in the 1960s and 70s that found no conclusive link between smoking and lung cancer. I guess I can't really blame these religious folks--they're just trying to make sure they keep getting paid...sorta reminds me of a certain religious publishing company that many of us were affiliated with.

15

Myth - The Bible claims to be inspired by God

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

the bible has 66 books (more if you're catholic, less if you're jewish), and multiple authors.

some of these authors claimed that some of what they wrote down was inspired by god.

that's hardly enough for someone to conclude that the bible claims inspiration for all of the words written by the multiple authors who were involved with writing "it" over the centuries.. .

Olin Moyles Ghost

Undercover--you have a PM.

15

Myth - The Bible claims to be inspired by God

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

the bible has 66 books (more if you're catholic, less if you're jewish), and multiple authors.

some of these authors claimed that some of what they wrote down was inspired by god.

that's hardly enough for someone to conclude that the bible claims inspiration for all of the words written by the multiple authors who were involved with writing "it" over the centuries.. .

Olin Moyles Ghost

Gubbering body: Olin, Paul's trivial letter which makes passing reference to "scripture" doesn't qualify as anything other than Paul's meandering opinion. Not only does Paul (aka Saul) go back and forth at times sometimes he thinks he has Gods spirit (1 Co. 7:39), and sometimes he can't remember where he read something (Heb. 2:6), but his endorsement doesn't even begin to address just what books he was talking about? If he was with the camp of the pharisees, then he believed in a whole lot more than just the books we have at present. You simply can't take one joker's opinion as an endorsement of the whole.

Looks like you're "moving the goalposts" on us. You said that the Bible doesn't claim to be inspired. I pointed out that it does, and gave a citation to the chapter/verse. Now you're saying that doesn't count for some reason. That hardly seems fair. ;)

But if I was put in the position of having to defend the nonsense that are in the pages of the Bible, I would probably try to come up with some kind of rationalization like you've done.

52

Facebook condemned

by straightshooter in

my wife told me that at the last meeting, the elders announced that youngsters going to the skateboarding park were no longer to have any privileges in the congregation.

this is to prevent jw youngs to be rounded up if a drug raid was made at the skateboarding park.. also because of individuals requesting that they be friends on facebook that contain bad pictures, that anyone with a facebook account will automatically have their privileges removed.. sounds like the pharasees protecting the people by adding additional traditions upon them.. .

Olin Moyles Ghost

Cantleave: Not true. I know Elders who still go to concerts. A friend of mine has seen Muse, U2 and Morrisey this year alone.

Please read the post before you reply to it. My post stated that "In more recent years, I've heard of congregations not allowing JWs to serve as pioneers or Ministerial Servants if they go to nightclubs or rock concerts." The purpose of this was to show that different congregations make up different rules. Nowhere does the post say that this applied to all or even most congregations. But it does apply to some of which I have personal knowledge.

126

Is the Bible Really Scientifically Accurate?

by FreeAtLast1914 in

jw
friends

the society (and others) love to quote job 26:7 where it says that "[god] suspends the earth over nothing" and isaiah 40:22, where it speaks of "the circle of the earth".

they use these scriptures to boast about the incredible scientific accuracy of the bible, proving god had a direct hand in everything written in it.. the trouble is that elsewhere in the scriptures, opposing views are put forth explaining then-unexplainable physics and geographical notions.

one is job 26:11: "the pillars of heaven tremble.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Even under the "gap theory"--which I understand from the link to mean that there's a gap of millions/billions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2--doesn't a literal fundamentalist reading of the Bible require all life on earth to be in the neighborhood of 6000 years old. In other words, dinosaurs coexisted with Adam and Eve, etc.

That's just silly. I find it fascinating that grown-ups believe this kind of thing. But not many years ago, I believed in talking snakes, talking donkeys, global floods, etc., which are just as ludicrous, so I guess I shouldn't be so quick to criticize.

And I'm skeptical that there are "plenty of recognized scientists" who believe that about 4300 years ago there was a global flood that covered the earth higher than Mt. Everest.

Finally, I understand that you believe that the Bible is true "within the proper contextual standpoint." That simply means that when observed facts prove the Bible wrong, you change what the Bible means. The WTS and many Christians do this with Genesis 1. Only mouth-breathing fundamentalists still believe that all life on the earth is 6000 years old. So the WTS and others say that "day" can mean thousands/millions of years.

I posit that this is completely at odds with the plain language of the scripture which discusses each "day" comprising an "evening" and a "morning." This strongly indicates that the writer is referring to 24-hour days. Any other reading is strained and contradictory to the plain text. But lots of Christians are willing to do this to salvage their holy book.

52

Facebook condemned

by straightshooter in

my wife told me that at the last meeting, the elders announced that youngsters going to the skateboarding park were no longer to have any privileges in the congregation.

this is to prevent jw youngs to be rounded up if a drug raid was made at the skateboarding park.. also because of individuals requesting that they be friends on facebook that contain bad pictures, that anyone with a facebook account will automatically have their privileges removed.. sounds like the pharasees protecting the people by adding additional traditions upon them.. .

Olin Moyles Ghost

Not surprised. Bodies of elders are free to set "congregation standards" to determine who is "exemplary" enough for "privileges." Often these standards relate to dress/grooming--such as the infamous example from a few decades ago of some congregations requiring brothers to wear white shirts when giving talks.

In more recent years, I've heard of congregations not allowing JWs to serve as pioneers or Ministerial Servants if they go to nightclubs or rock concerts.

Of course, this varies from congregation to congregation. There has been no official condemnation of Facebook/Myspace/etc. from the Society. But I expect more local needs talks, mentions from the platform at circuit assemblies, etc., in the coming months and years.

15

Myth - The Bible claims to be inspired by God

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

the bible has 66 books (more if you're catholic, less if you're jewish), and multiple authors.

some of these authors claimed that some of what they wrote down was inspired by god.

that's hardly enough for someone to conclude that the bible claims inspiration for all of the words written by the multiple authors who were involved with writing "it" over the centuries.. .

Olin Moyles Ghost

Ok, so what does 2 Tim 3:16 mean when it says "all scripture is inspired of God"? At that time, "scripture" referred to the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings--what we today know as the "Old Testament." So, that takes care of the Old Testament.

I suggest reading the Old Testament. Start with Genesis. If you get to chapter 2 and still believe that it's "inspired of God" you need to have your head examined.

126

Is the Bible Really Scientifically Accurate?

by FreeAtLast1914 in

jw
friends

the society (and others) love to quote job 26:7 where it says that "[god] suspends the earth over nothing" and isaiah 40:22, where it speaks of "the circle of the earth".

they use these scriptures to boast about the incredible scientific accuracy of the bible, proving god had a direct hand in everything written in it.. the trouble is that elsewhere in the scriptures, opposing views are put forth explaining then-unexplainable physics and geographical notions.

one is job 26:11: "the pillars of heaven tremble.

Olin Moyles Ghost

@Perry: I gave four examples on the first page of this thread. I'll copy my post below:

In some places it is; in some places it isn't. The problem is that the Bible claims to be the inspired word of an all-powerful God who cannot lie. Thus, if there are any scientific (or historical) inaccuracies, then the Bible cannot be what it claims to be.

Some problems include:

Genesis 1: the universe created in six literal days ("there came to be evening, there came to be morning) about 6000 years ago. Demonstrably false.
Genesis 1: plants created before the sun was created. Ever heard of photosynthesis?
Genesis 6 and 7: a global flood that was several "cubits" higher than Mount Everest about 4300 years ago. Impossible and provably false.
Ecclesiastes 1:5: the sun revolves around the earth. Galileo proved this one wrong a few hundred years ago.

These are just a few examples of where the Bible includes statements that are clearly false. Of course, modern religious believers twist and rationalize the plain words of Scripture to try to make them fit the facts. But, the plain fact of the matter is that the Bible was written by men, several thousand years ago, and includes the scientific misunderstandings of the men who wrote it.

126

Is the Bible Really Scientifically Accurate?

by FreeAtLast1914 in

jw
friends

the society (and others) love to quote job 26:7 where it says that "[god] suspends the earth over nothing" and isaiah 40:22, where it speaks of "the circle of the earth".

they use these scriptures to boast about the incredible scientific accuracy of the bible, proving god had a direct hand in everything written in it.. the trouble is that elsewhere in the scriptures, opposing views are put forth explaining then-unexplainable physics and geographical notions.

one is job 26:11: "the pillars of heaven tremble.

Olin Moyles Ghost

It's telling that the religious fundamentalists on this board aren't defending the verifiable, provable, lies in the Bible--but are rather trying to say that scientists don't get everything right either.

The fact of the matter is that the Bible claims to be the inspired ("God-breathed") word of a God who cannot lie. But the Bible contains objectively false statements that flatly contradict known facts about the natural world. Thus, the Bible is not what it claims to be. End of story.

Of course, this doesn't sit well with those who want to believe the Bible is God's word. Thus, they resort to misdirection and distraction in an attempt to change the subject. Reminds me of a certain religious organization we all know...

126

Is the Bible Really Scientifically Accurate?

by FreeAtLast1914 in

jw
friends

the society (and others) love to quote job 26:7 where it says that "[god] suspends the earth over nothing" and isaiah 40:22, where it speaks of "the circle of the earth".

they use these scriptures to boast about the incredible scientific accuracy of the bible, proving god had a direct hand in everything written in it.. the trouble is that elsewhere in the scriptures, opposing views are put forth explaining then-unexplainable physics and geographical notions.

one is job 26:11: "the pillars of heaven tremble.

Olin Moyles Ghost

In some places it is; in some places it isn't. The problem is that the Bible claims to be the inspired word of an all-powerful God who cannot lie. Thus, if there are any scientific (or historical) inaccuracies, then the Bible cannot be what it claims to be.

Some problems include:

Genesis 1: the universe created in six literal days ("there came to be evening, there came to be morning) about 6000 years ago. Demonstrably false.
Genesis 1: plants created before the sun was created. Ever heard of photosynthesis?
Genesis 6 and 7: a global flood that was several "cubits" higher than Mount Everest about 4300 years ago. Impossible and provably false.
Ecclesiastes 1:5: the sun revolves around the earth. Galileo proved this one wrong a few hundred years ago.

These are just a few examples of where the Bible includes statements that are clearly false. Of course, modern religious believers twist and rationalize the plain words of Scripture to try to make them fit the facts. But, the plain fact of the matter is that the Bible was written by men, several thousand years ago, and includes the scientific misunderstandings of the men who wrote it.